Mixed Messages Or Independence: Dating And Going Dutch In 2010

Susan Gernhart is back with a thought provoking post on the dating habits of women dating in 2010. My how they’ve changed over the years with the advent of the Internet! Please read and share your thoughts in the comments about dating and going dutch in 2010.

Dating in 2010. It’s definitely not the same as it was in 1955. Or, 2005 for that matter. The Internet has drastically altered the rules of the dating game (and it is sort of a game, no?).

After four or five rounds with the snooze button, I groggily awoke to a husky voice emanating from my alarm clock radio in deep discussion over a recent survey about who pays on dates. The results stated that due to a combination of hectic lifestyle and technology, women don’t expect men to pay for dinner.

The DJ (the female voice that finally forced me to separate head from pillow) and most of her listeners were annoyed, shocked and outraged. (After mustering up enough energy to crawl out of bed, I logged onto her blog only to find several parts of her continued rant in ALL CAPITAL LETTERS.)

One woman caller insisted that men should always pay on the first date because in doing so, it’s a prerequisite for the rest of their relationship. It shows that he can provide for her and their future family, as a father/husband figure should. Many supported her views, insisting that a guy not paying was a turn off and exemplified rude behavior.

An August 2010 poll (www.eatocracy.cnn.com) asked readers: First date at a modestly-priced restaurant. Who should pay? 19,137 people responded and here are the results:

The one did the asking out should pay, but the other should ask, and be politely refused. 49.12%(9,401 votes)
The one who asked the other out – no question. 32.93% (6,301 votes)
It should be split down the middle. 6.63% (1,269 votes)
The one who did the asking out, but their guest should pay the tip. 4.07% (778 votes)
Other 3.73% (714 votes)
The guest should be allowed to pay if they offer. 2.57% (492 votes)
The one who grabs the check first 0.95% (182 votes)

First observation? The survey is free of any gender references – “man/woman” has been replaced with “asker/askee”. (And as we know, more and more woman are courageous enough to be the “asker’s” these days.)

I’m going to introduce a third factor (in addition to the aforementioned busy schedules and social networking sites) – the economy.

Let’s face it. It’s still a disaster. The Labor Department reported that overall, a total of 95,000 jobs were lost in September, far worse than expected and down from the previous month.

“The economy is no better, no worse,” Heidi Shierholz, an economist with the Economic Policy Institute said in a research note. “America’s workers are still in hell.”

Another disheartening statistic: the “underemployment rate” which encompasses discouraged people without jobs and those working part-time in lieu of full-time work increased from 17.1% from 16.7% in August. In simplest terms, more than one in six adults are without the job they want or need.

Furthermore, women are facing an 8% unemployment rate compared to their counterparts who find themselves at 9.8%.

So, do we still think men should pay? If so how often? Just the first date? Every date? Every other date? Yes, it’s a chivalrous act, but as one male friend noted, chivalry started eons ago when men worked and women didn’t, leaving them no means to pay for a slice of pizza even if they wanted to.

Me? I don’t think there is a single clear cut response that applies to everyone. (Well, saying one person should pay all the time wouldn’t be fair. I’ve played the role of someone’s ATM and unless your bank account rivals Bill Gates’, I don’t recommend it.)

For some couple, splitting the dinner bills may be the best solution. Maybe both parties make the same amount of money. Maybe her salary rivals his and she can afford to pull out her wallet just as often. Or perhaps she’s very independent and contributing financially is a priority for her.

Women all want independence and equality; are we sending mixed messages when we “require” men to pay all the time? Do these factors – busy lifestyles and job losses – influence your opinion? Has your outlook on dating changed in the past few years?

Big Brother Banking: You Can Run But You Can’t Hide

Grab These Tax Credits Before 2010 Is Over

Additional Posts

About the Author

GingerGirls Just Wanna Have Funds is a personal finance website dedicated to educating and empowering women in the area of personal finance. Our articles center on money management: making it, saving it and growing it which supports our theme: Breaking Financial Ceilings One Stiletto At A Time. We have been featured in Business Insider (contributor), Lifehacker, Consumerist, MSNBC, Essence, Wall Street Journal, Good Morning America and MSN Project Engage Web Series. I believe in a future where women can have financial freedom and choose the life they want to live by taking control of their finances. You only need to want it hard enough while letting go of limiting beliefs around money. Join me as I share tips that will help you light up your financial life and take control.View all posts by Ginger →

Kathryn

We're well beyond the first date now, but here's how I usually handle it. If he suggests we go out, I tend to "let" him pay (in other words, I make no move towards my wallet). However, if I suggest it, or if we're at my house and I didn't plan a meal, I make sure to pick up the tab.

For our first date though, we went for a walk in the park and he bought us each a snowcone. Over the course of the first 3-4 dates, I don't think he spent more than $30, and this demonstrated frugality played a part in the relationship continuing. Ladies, lets look for the guys that aren't out to impress us with their wallet!
SSS

It is sad, but golddiggers give women a bad name now. However, I make $100,000 per year and my boyfriend doesn't even make $50,000. So… yes, logically I should be paying for more of the 'going out'…. but I hate it. I don't like to feel like 'the breadwinner' and feel like I have to support a man. It's a tough thing if you really love the person.
Analytical Eye

From personal experience most men just want to know that you are willing to pay, that you are not money hungry or that you are not imposing all of these "traditional" expectations onto him. If a man is treating me great, and he makes me happy, I get an urge to pay for a date as a sign of appreciation. Usually after such a gesture, they rarely allow me to pay ever again.

But bottom line: We are individuals not a group.

You can categorize us as women, but "personal preferences" are endless. Our opinions will always be different regardless of how our culture changes, there will never be one right answer. In the dating world, some women like to chase and others (more traditional) want to be chased. Same applies here.

Give me any viable answer to this question and there is a woman somewhere who believes in that answer. So judge your date as an individual and if your views don't match, then you are not compatible. Boom! There you go!
Pamela

I think whoever is not working should not have to pay! I'm finding that men don't even want to date women who aren't working and making the same amount of money as they are but that's damn selfishness on the part of the men. It says they also wouldn't want to support a future wife and family. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad the feminist movement got me the right to go to college and get the same college degree in the same subject as men, but that hasn't helped the world to accept a female, American Indian, scientist. So, yeah, the fact that I'm even on this website indicates that there's a little bit of "old fashioned" conservatism in me after all.
missmajestic

I wouldn't have someone over to my house or go over to his alone unless I'd known him for awhile. If we are seeing each other in a romantic capacity, with the potential or hope for a relationship he is the default payer. But this doesn't mean that every date costs money. If I am planning and arranging something for us that is my I would pay (like front row Maxwell tickets:). I guess I'm just old fashioned (and single!) But seriously the guy who can't pay on the first date isn't the man for me. I don't think dating has to be expensive.

I think this whole "who pays for what" argument is an excuse on both sides. An excuse for women to say men are cheap and trifling and an excuse for men to say women are golddiggers and the only dates I can afford are takeout with a booty call afterwards. If I asked a man out, I would pay. But I've never had a guy *let* me pay. I have done the fake reach for my wallet. I always get stopped. I also think $100 for a random date is too much money for the average guy.

To me, what a couple does after they are married or living together is different because that money is sorta coming from the same pot.
missmajestic

I think if a man asks he should pay on the few first date. Use a coupon if you want to , I don't care. Be creative and come up with something inexpensive if your funds are tight. If you are charming enough I will sit in starbucks and talk to you all night. Its true, rich guys don't have to work as hard. As we go out more and make plans I have no problem picking up tickets for us. Honestly, I'd rather cook for a guy than pay for dinner unless its his b-day or something. I'd rather not do dutch. Dutch says we are buddies, not a couple. Either he pays or I do if we are a couple.

Gingerlatte

What if you're going on your first date? Would you have him over to your house or over to his? What if you arent a couple yet and going on your first few dates to test the waters?

http://www.princesszaria.com Cheryl Pope

The one who asks definitely pays. So glad I'm not in this category again. My husband basicy pays but i sometimes treat.
Jill

Couples hardly talk about finances before marriage so we certainly won't ask if a man can afford the dinner on the first few dates!

I think we've all been the girl (comma) friend of a guy spending all of his money wining and dining a new love interest. We know that spending $100 per date, seeing her 3-5x a week, and sending her flowers & gifts will bankrupt him faster than a Real Housewife. But we send mixed messages by always speaking highly of the guy who bought us dinner at such and such place, sent us an expensive gift, or offered to pay for the object of our affection in the store window.

I think it's about personality. Some women want a man who is comfortable paying for everything, some men what a women who'll go dutch without a complaint. Unfortunatley romantic expectations as they relate to financial stability are rarely if ever discussed.

Gingerlatte

I totally agree with this.

Jasmine

I used to think a man should offer to pay for the first date, if he did the asking (I've always wholeheartedly offered to pay also and sometimes have).

I just started the online dating thing, and this is where it gets sticky. I don't think that the man is obligated to pay for the first date because often a meeting is set up without already knowing the person on a base level. Also, one may be going on a ton of 'first dates' to see if there's a real life connection and it doesn't seem fair for a man to automatically have to pay for all of those.

Anyone with online dating experience know how the paying thing works? I'm going on a coffee date soon (not that expensive anyways) but I plan to arrive early and buy my coffee when I arrive to get around any awkwardness.
Morgan

I definitely WANT a guy to pay for the first date, but I don't think it's a hard and fast rule that he always should.

My boyfriend and I tend to split the check for normal nights out, and for more proper date nights, whoever invites the other pays. However, for the first month or two of dating, he paid for everything, although I found out later that he was a bit put off that I didn't even offer to split the check, and he assumed I was just going out with him because it was his treat.

(I paid for the majority of everything with my previous two boyfriends and felt taken advantage of, so it's a sensitive subject for me, not an entitlement issue- I wanted to be with someone who was financially stable, and so it was kind of a test.)

It's not an ideal situation for me, not because I expect or want him to pay for everything, but because he makes a lot more money than I do and eats out a lot more. Every third time he asks if I want to meet somewhere, I either have to beg off or be honest that I can't afford it. There's no shame in it, but it's definitely A Thing in our relationship.
Marie

I always go for a balance of some kind. I am dating someone who makes roughly the same amount of money, so we switch off on treating each other (it's not an exact science) and occasionally split the bill down the middle. That works for us. He is a teacher, so I knew upfront that he didn't make a huge salary.

In my opinion, a guy should always pay on the first date. I think it shows his generosity, his interest in his date, and his courteousness. If he does not want to set aside what, $15?, for my meal, or $3 for a coffee, then I would have reservations about dating him. I dated someone who asked me out and did not pay for our first couple dates, even though I was a grad student and he was working at a lucrative job!! It was a bad sign… Now that I think about it, my current boyfriend offered to treat on our first few dates, but we ended up splitting the bills up (he bought dinner, I bought movie tickets).

Marie

I should clarify that my boyfriend WOULD have paid for the movie tickets, but it was my choice to treat. We both walked away from the date impressed with each other's generosity.

I also wanted to say that if I were dating someone who was unemployed, I would treat more frequently, but we would also cut back on eating out and other expensive dates, because it would not be sustainable or fit my budget for me to be footing the majority of the bills.
SSS

Ok… dinner is $150, and 2 movie tix are $30.

shan

Where do you eat? On a first date dinner came out to about $40 for both of us at an indian restaurant. So yes there's a slight difference but it's nowhere near what you've said.

NOIR

I just don't know about this one. Most women I know are head of household. Personally, if a man even looks to me to pay or contribute on a date (even if the eyeballs linger for just a moment), he is no longer a contender. I do everything already. I'm not asking for the date to take over my mortgage, but when you consider the fact that men do not even KNOW how to properly ask a woman out for a date, it's just sad. The purpose is to demonstrate his ability to show me a good time and take care of things. I want a man with a plan. I am not so independent that I think I don't need a man, I want one, but I want one who takes pride and feels purposed to care for me.